Pope Francis got seven seconds of applause recently when he said that some Catholic preachers talk too much.

“At times, there are long sermons, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. But, please, preachers must preach an idea, a feeling, and a call to action. Beyond eight minutes the preaching starts to fade; it is not understood. And I say this to preachers,” Pope Francis said, departing from his prepared text for a general audience in St. Peter’s Square in Rome on Dec. 4.

People started clapping.

“I can see that you like to hear this!” the Pope said. “At times, we see men who, when the sermon starts, go outside to smoke a cigarette and then come back in. Please, the sermon must be an idea, a feeling and a call to action. And it must never exceed 10 minutes. This is very important.”

But his talk that day lasted 15 minutes 24 seconds. So there must be exceptions. What is the right amount of time for a preacher to preach?

The Register asked five American priests known for their preaching how long they fill the time at Sunday Mass between the Gospel reading and the Profession of Faith.

All of them said they appreciated the Pope’s emphasis on praying to the Holy Spirit for guidance, staying focused, and following the imperative, in the Pope’s words, “not to want to preach ourselves, but to preach Jesus Christ.”

Yet some said the Pope’s 10-minute limit is too strict. More than one pointed out that in parts of Africa people walk for hours to get to church, and they expect a long homily when they get there — an hour is not rare.

Audience Matters

Father Jeffrey Kirby, pastor of Our Lady of Grace parish in Indian Land, South Carolina, told the Register that when he was the administrator of an African American parish some years ago parishioners told him he had to preach longer.

Sermons at Sunday Mass have to accomplish a lot these days, he said: Explain the Scriptures, yes, but also explain Catholic teachings to pew-sitters who were poorly instructed when they were kids.

“And so, the burden placed upon me is I still have to make sure that the majority of my people receive Christian formation, which means the liturgical homily now has to double up as an opportunity to proclaim the Scriptures, but also to teach the faith,” said Father Kirby, a frequent Register contributor. “So sometimes a longer homily is there because we have a lot to cover.”

He said he typically preaches 18 to 26 minutes during Sunday Mass and six to 10 minutes for a daily Mass.

He also said Pope Francis ought to keep in mind the Catholic principle of subsidiarity, that local matters ought to be handled locally, where possible.

“So, for example, as a local pastor, I know my people. The people who come to my parish choose to come to my parish. They have options in this area. I know what is needed. I know what is not needed. I know how far I can preach. I also know how to engage the people of God in terms of when to use a story or periodically a joke and so on. So I think the discernment of the local pastor has to at some point be deferred to,” Father Kirby said.

He noted that the Southeast, where he works, is dominated by Protestant churches where ministers are expected to preach for a long time, in part because they go into detail when engaging with the Bible.

“There are two kinds of people who come to church right now. Either it’s just a habit and they don’t care. Or they’re serious about their faith,” Father Kirby said. “And the ones that are serious about their faith are part of this golden age of Catholic Scripture scholarship. And they want depth. For them to come and just give them 10 minutes of fluff, I’d lose them to the local Baptist church in 10.1 minutes.”

Msgr. Stuart Swetland, president of Donnelly College in Kansas City, Kansas, said the attention span of the audience matters.

“I always point out that college students are used to being attentive to longer discourses, like lectures in their classes. Given their vocations as students, sometimes longer didactic homilies make sense in the campus setting,” Msgr. Swetland told the Register. “But what’s appropriate for a campus setting might not be appropriate for your average parish.”

In addition to leading a college, Msgr. Swetland also serves as pastor of an African American parish in Kansas City, called Our Lady and St. Rose. Black Catholics tend to have more patience with longer sermons than most other Americans.

But Msgr. Swetland said he has taken the Pope’s comments to heart. This past June, he said, he started thinking about how he might preach shorter, and Pope Francis’ recent admonition has given him further inspiration along those lines.

In the past Msgr. Swetland has used as a homiletic structure an introduction, three points and a conclusion. But this Advent, he said, “I’ve been doing two points on Sunday, partly to keep it shorter.”

“My hope is that they’re taking those two points with them rather than trying to remember everything I said if I went longer,” he said.

“I have really shortened my homilies, and I think, quite frankly, I have been more effective in proclaiming the word in a memorable, and hopefully joy-filled, way to the people I serve.”

To the Point

Father Bryce Sibley, moral theology professor and associate academic dean at Notre Dame Seminary in New Orleans, said he aims for 12 minutes on Sundays, though he occasionally goes longer. But length isn’t as big a turnoff for listeners as other factors, he said.

“The first one, which is the most important, is that it is rambling, disordered nonsense. You can preach for 10 minutes, but if you don’t have a point, if you don’t develop your theory, if it’s just random talking or repeating yourself, it could be six minutes, people will hate it,” Father Sibley said.

Another no-no is a sermon that doesn’t offer practical advice.

“So I would say time, relevance and sort of structure,” Father Sibley said. “Concise, directed; cut off all the stuff that doesn’t matter — compact, that’s probably a better way than saying short. Because if you do it right, you’re going to get your message down in 10 minutes, 12 minutes, if you know how to do it.”

Good material wears well, he said. Material that isn’t as good needs to at least get to the point quickly.

“So I think the issue is some guys are going to be just really good preachers and they know how to do it and people are going to listen. They could go on for 20 minutes. People don’t care. The guys who are not good, if they could simply follow a set pattern, do this every single time, be structured, be ordered, it would make things a lot better,” Father Sibley said.

Have a Point

Father Michael Ruminski, pastor of Sacred Heart Church in Bloomfield, Connecticut, said he rarely preaches longer than 10 minutes, adding that he agrees with Pope Francis’ advice.

The key, he said, is clarity, which usually requires preparation.

“And I think, oftentimes, wordiness comes from having an idea of what you think you might want to say, but not quite knowing how to say it,” said Father Ruminski, who also serves as director of the Office of Divine Worship for the Archdiocese of Hartford. “And that’s when you get into maybe elaborating in ways that are unproductive for the reflection of the word versus productive for the reflection of the word. That’s when you start maybe giving too many examples or too many personal examples — and then if you’re not prepared well at all, then you start talking about yourself.”

A lot can be said in a little, he said, making a reference to the Gettysburg Address, which at 272 words took about two minutes to deliver.

“Of all of Abraham Lincoln’s speeches,” he said, “the one that we remember the most is the one that was the shortest, because it was the most powerful of its expression.”

Father Paul Scalia, pastor of St. James Catholic Church in Falls Church, Virginia, said 10 minutes is a good goal for a sermon, adding that “it can’t be ironclad.”

He said he aims for 10 to 12 minutes on Sundays. Why?

“Honestly, because of the parking lot,” he said. “I think that’s what people have come to expect, and I think that’s about their attention span.”

He noted that Pope Francis has said a sermon should not only be short but also focused — a sentiment he cheers.

“We’ve all heard homilies more than 10 minutes that didn’t feel like a long homily, because it was good,” Father Scalia, author of the 2019 book Sermons in Times of Crisis: Twelve Homilies to Stir Your Soul, told the Register. “And we’ve heard homilies that were less than 10 minutes that felt much, much longer.”

More important than either length or focus, though, is authenticity.

In the introduction to his book, which presents celebrated sermons from the early Church to earlier this century, Father Scalia says the Christian preacher must seek to be a prophet, a shepherd and an ambassador for God “who knows God personally, who is truly from him.”

“A preacher apart from God is like a drainpipe. He simply passes along the latest rainfall,” Father Scalia writes. “... The preacher from God is more like a reservoir. Because he dwells with the Lord, he has a depth from which he can draw at any time. He can speak to people not just about the worldly things they already know but about the eternal life they desire.”