Many Catholics are familiar with Francis Ford Coppola’s 1974 psychological thriller The Conversation starring Gene Hackman, but a lesser known 2022 movie with the same title also provides quality entertainment. 

The film now available for streaming on several platforms, highlights a historic meeting between a Croatian spiritual leader and the communist president of Yugoslavia, came to theaters just as the renewal of the Ukraine-Russia hostilities occurred. Although filmmaker Dominik Sedlar didn’t have any correlations in mind when producing the film, there are interesting connections to be found. 

Told from the perspective of an observer, The Conversation recounts a remarkable encounter between two vastly different figures: Cardinal Aloysius Stepinac, archbishop of Zagreb and the spiritual leader of the Catholic Church in Croatia during World War II, and Marshal Josip Broz Tito, the communist president of Yugoslavia. Their meeting in the closing days of the Second World War was not only a moment of historical significance but also a window into the profound ideological and moral divides between the two men.

Tito demanded nothing less than Cardinal Stepinac’s break with the Vatican to establish an independent Croatian Church — an undertaking as momentous as England’s split from Rome under Henry VIII. What follows is an intense dialogue, filled with rhetorical sparring, passionate convictions and irreconcilable differences. The cardinal’s refusal to sever ties with Rome carried severe consequences: He was sentenced to 16 years in prison and later died in 1960 under questionable circumstances while under house arrest.

On October 3, 1998, Pope John Paul II beatified Cardinal Stepinac, and referred to him as one of the outstanding figures of the Catholic Church. 

EWTN’s Christian Peschken spoke to the Croatian filmmaker for CNA Deutsch about the film.

Dominik, what inspired you to turn this story into a film?

When I grew up in the former Yugoslavia, Tito and Cardinal Stepinac were two extremely polarizing figures — and they remain so to this day. Those who supported Tito had little regard for Stepinac, and vice versa. Growing up in a Catholic environment, you might assume where my sympathies lie. Yet I wanted to avoid letting this personal bias influence how the two characters are portrayed in the film.

Both men passionately stood by their respective beliefs — on faith and on the question of who was “right.”  I wanted the audience to decide for themselves which side they align with.

I knew about the purported single meeting between Tito and Cardinal Stepinac and found this episode to be a fascinating foundation for a story. It is especially intriguing that Tito’s demand — the separation of the Croatian Church from the Vatican — had only one historical precedent: the creation of the Anglican Church under Henry VIII. By refusing to comply, Stepinac sealed his fate, as Tito never forgave him for this defiance. At the same time, this decision reinforced the centuries-old bond between Croatians and the Vatican, which supported the Croatian people despite them not having a state of their own until 1991.

Another reason for telling this story was my desire to depict a scenario where two diametrically opposed positions clash, yet some form of civil dialogue remains possible. In today’s world, where people often only want to hear what reinforces their own beliefs and civilized discourse seems almost obsolete, this feels more important than ever.

 

How does your Catholic faith influence the stories you choose to tell?

My faith doesn’t necessarily dictate which stories I want to tell. Instead, I believe that everyone —whether they have faith or not — is consciously or unconsciously shaped by their convictions. My goal is always to find a story that I find compelling and then figure out how to tell it in the most original way possible.

 

You made the film in 2022, the same year the current Russian-Ukrainian war began. Was this a coincidence?

That was purely coincidental. Yet the world is, tragically, once again mirroring the catastrophic mistakes of the past. The people of Ukraine are fighting for their country, just as Croatia did in 1991 when it was attacked after its legitimate declaration of independence from Serbia.

We all thought and hoped that after the horrors of World War II and the conflicts following Yugoslavia’s dissolution, any notion of one country occupying another on European soil would be a thing of the past. Yet, somehow, this evil keeps finding ways to resurface, making innocent people its victims.

 

Your film portrays a priest in a nuanced and realistic light, unlike the often anti-Catholic or anti-religious tendencies in today’s media. Do you think this could affect the global reception of your work?

Catholics and Christians are often easy targets because they rarely, if ever, strike back, making them an easy focal point for criticism. My main goal is to tell an interesting and compelling story that captures the audience’s attention regardless of their background.

You can only aim to make the best film possible. Whether someone harbors prejudice against the story or its depiction of certain real or fictional figures is beyond your control. There’s no point in worrying about what you can’t change.

 

Films labeled as “Christian” often risk alienating viewers of other faiths or secular audiences. Do you believe the industry needs more overtly Christian films, or should we focus on subtly integrating Christian principles into commercially popular genres to reach a broader audience?

In general, I think there’s a lack of good — let alone great — films today. Originality and courage to challenge the status quo or the prevailing political narratives are missing. Tragically, many beloved films of the past wouldn’t be made today for often absurd reasons.

There’s a pervasive fear of offending anyone, resulting in films created in a vacuum — more like factory products designed to dictate what we think or how we should live rather than authentic works of storytelling.

The focus should simply be on making a great film that resonates with the audience. There’s an overwhelming volume of content today — perhaps too much — but much of it is not particularly good. I hope that in the future, we will regain the courage to make films that push boundaries and challenge the status quo. For an industry that prides itself on being fearless, it is currently driven by fear. I hope that changes soon.

 

Beyond its historical context, your film addresses universal themes such as love, hate, forgiveness, and the consequences of human choices. How does your Catholic faith shape your life?

My faith is a deeply personal part of my life that I carry with me always. It gives me peace and comfort and provides my life with meaning and purpose.

I’ve had the great fortune to visit all the holy sites in Israel — from the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem — and these experiences left a profound impression on me. 

Growing up under a communist regime where the Catholic faith was banned and witnessing how it affected my family taught me never to take faith for granted. For me, faith is something earned by striving to become the best version of oneself and remaining steadfast in one’s beliefs, no matter the challenges life may bring.

About Dominik Sedlar

Born in Zagreb and raised in New York City, Dominik Sedlar attended the renowned Professional Children's School (alumni include Scarlett Johansson and Christopher Walken) and the NYU Tisch School of the Arts. At just 15, he directed his first documentary, The Mozart of Basketball, and has since made 15 films, including three feature films and twelve documentaries.

His film Syndrome Jerusalem received a special award at the Venice Film Festival in 2004. In 2006, he and his father Jakov Sedlar created Searching for Orson, a documentary about Orson Welles' unfinished works, featuring interviews with Steven Spielberg and James Earl Jones. Sedlar directed the indie comedy In Between Engagements, the WWII sports drama The Match, and the drama The Conversation, based on the historic meeting between Cardinal Stepinac and Marshal Tito that shaped postwar Europe.

Most recently, he completed Vindicta, a World War II revenge drama.

Christian Peschken is a film and television producer and since 2014 EWTN correspondent in Geneva. He previously lived in Hollywood, producing films, for 25 years.